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#14521: "Saboteur 2: When the blue team won, the green team did not get the gold (there were no blue doors). "

open: 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다

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2020년 Feb 25일 05:51 • mals77 • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

imgur.com/a/lhn5jlM

2020년 Feb 25일 07:04 • mals77 • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Move 190
pino ice is building a new tunnel
pino ice finds gold!
Blue gold digger found gold: the blue team wins this round! - ERROR HERE (TWO TEAMS MUST WIN)
There are 1 winners in this round, including 0 boss and 0 dealer. 1 geologist also gets gold for the found gems.
mals77 plays for the green gold Digger and gets 0 gold nuggets
DungeonD plays as a Pest and gets 0 gold nuggets
__ Razz _ _ plays for Geologist and gets 5 gold nuggets
tynka plays for the Pest and gets 0 gold nuggets
LuisFGC plays for the green gold Digger and gets 0 gold nuggets
pino ice plays for the blue gold Digger and gets 5 gold nuggets

2020년 Mar 20일 02:07 • mals77 • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Аналогичная ошибка повторилась и в конце этой игры boardgamearena.com/1/saboteur?table=65340032#

2020년 Mar 20일 02:08 • mals77 • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

A similar error was repeated at the end of this game boardgamearena.com/1/saboteur?table=65340032#

2020년 Mar 28일 08:23 • Gazbiv 64 • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

The same for me, rules is not correct.

If a blue dwarf find the treasure, and there is not blue door beetween the entry and the treasure. Green dwarfs are winners too.

2020년 Apr 5일 16:42 • Argone • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Même problème à l'instant, dans notre première manche

Chemin jusqu'à la pépite d'or direct sans porte (malgré la présence d'une porte bleue ailleurs)
Joueur avec nain vert n'a rien gagné

Partie #71337722
coup #33

i.imgur.com/OIamCh0.png

2020년 Apr 7일 23:52 • Chounga_81 • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Même problème dans notre partie

boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=71791457

coup #23 pas de porte, découverte par un vert, seuls les verts gagnent et pas le bleu
coup #92 pas de porte, découverte par un bleu, seuls les bleus gagnent et pas le vert

Incohérent avec la règle:

Ensuite, selon la continuité ou non du chemin entre le départ et le trésor, on détermine qui des Saboteurs
ou des Chercheurs a remporté la manche. Si le chemin est continu mais bloqué par une porte, seuls les
Chercheurs propriétaires de cette porte (en fonction de sa couleur) sont gagnants.

2020년 Apr 12일 01:13 • KovAndrey • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Такая же ошибка, не дает насладиться игрой

2020년 May 3일 15:22 • compte obelète • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

I got that experience too, multiple times.

J'ai aussi eu une expérience, plusieurs fois.

2020년 May 7일 19:26 • GMaks • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

That's right. The rules in English and German, in the section "New Dwarf Cards and Their Victory Conditions" describe that both teams win only if gold was found by anyone except diggers. Teams compete and the gold is received by the one whose digger built the path to gold (if the doors of the opposite color do not interfere).
It is necessary to supplement the description of the rules in other languages.

Всё верно. В правилах на английском и немецком, в разделе "New Dwarf Cards and Their Victory Conditions" описано что обе команды побеждают только если золото нашёл кто угодно кроме копателей. Команды соперничают и золото получает та, чей копатель построил путь к золоту (если не мешают двери противоположного цвета).
Необходимо дополнить описание правил на остальных языках.

2020년 May 8일 20:10 • Cherepizl • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

При победе игры зелеными победителями считаются обе команды. При победе синими - только синие победители. Это точно неправильный результат. Так же количество распределяемого золота не верно. При подсчете геологи не должны учитываться в числе победителей, им даются самородки только за кристаллы.

2020년 May 8일 20:20 • Mirovan • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Yes, this is bug !

2020년 May 8일 20:21 • immmus • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Yes, this is bug !

2020년 May 8일 20:21 • Utol • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Жесткий баг, который портит все!!!

2020년 May 8일 22:29 • MandyVelthuis • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Found the same bug when playing the game.

2020년 May 9일 23:07 • MarieBdC8 • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

same bug when playing today

2020년 May 10일 13:17 • Tibor29 • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

table #85672681
blue reached gold, no door in path, only blue recieved gold

2020년 May 16일 06:30 • Geddy19 • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Yes - what GMaks said. From the Amigo/Zman rulebook for Sab 2:

A team wins if:
● a dwarf from that team creates the connection to the treasure and the way there isn‘t blocked by a door of the other color, or;
● a dwarf from the other team creates the connection to the treasure, but the way there for his or her own team is blocked by a door of the wrong color
Both teams win (along with all other “non-Saboteurs”) if The Boss, The Geologist or The Profiteer creates the connection to the gold and the way there isn‘t blocked by a door of the other color.

Seems like a translation issue. Scoring works correctly per the English rules, at least.

2020년 May 16일 10:06 • diamant • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Saboteur #65320900, move #190:
The blue dwarf discovered the gold, with free way to the gold, therefore the green team doesn't score anything, because it is always the team that discovers the gold that wins.
The rule is poorly written (this is the case in particular of its translation into French), but I think that the implementation retained a correct interpretation of the rule.

Not a bug.

2020년 May 31일 19:58 • compte obelète • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

But maybe the translation in rules is a bug?

2020년 Jun 16일 12:07 • JusterGame • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

RULES
I know it may sound presumptuous, but I have spent many hours drafting my own version of the rules - taken of course with great care from the developer's. This is (1) because there did seem to be some uncertainties unless you read very closely, and (2) because I want eventually to play in 'real life' with people who aren't avid game players, and who get impatient if the rules aren't clear and easy to follow & check back on.

I have communicated also with BGA and with the publishers during my efforts at clearing it all up.

Am I able to post a pdf anywhere for people to comment, please?

2020년 Aug 8일 07:09 • boydogbr • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

not an error

2020년 Sep 4일 07:59 • MasterMar • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

That is not a bug at all, though I thought it was one time, it is not.

2020년 Sep 20일 17:34 • Mr Knight • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

113202611 - the end of the second game- the same problem - Why green miners did not get gold?

2020년 Oct 5일 19:14 • hugo_pinar • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Looking a conversation with creator of the Game explained this is not a bug.

2020년 Oct 9일 20:44 • Dissaster • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

I contacted the authors (or publisher?? I contacted Amigo) about this issue via their web page and here's the response:

Hi _:

Your interpretation of the rules is correct--if there is an unbroken path to the gold with no doors then all miners win.

Thanks for your support for our products; please let us know if you need any additional assistance.

Sincerely,

Jeff

Hope this closes the discussion and allows the game developer in this platform to correct it.

I can forward the mail if any proof is needed.

2020년 Dec 23일 20:23 • Szepalmokat • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

There is maybe a translation problem in some languages, but the rules in French, English and German are very clear: it's only the digger team that discovers the gold that gets the points (in case of no obstacle)

FR: www.gigamic.com/files/catalog/products/rules/rules-saboteur-2.pdf
C’est toujours l’équipe qui établit la connexion qui gagne. [...]

EN: www.amigo-spiele.de/spiel/saboteur-2 --> "Spielregeln und download"
A team wins the round if one of their own dwarves finishes a path to the treasure [...]

DE: www.amigo-spiele.de/spiel/saboteur-2 --> "Spielregeln und download"
Ein Team gewinnt, wenn ein Zwerg des eigenen Teams die Verbindung zum Schatz herstellt [...]

2021년 Apr 22일 15:57 • TimonSluis • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

It may be an issue of translation indeed. The post above me clearly states that the rules as posted on this website are currently being applied correctly. So it's probably not a bug, but a deliberate choice to build it like this.

I must say though, I always learned it differently, as was confirmed by Amigo in Dissaster's post:
"if there is an unbroken path to the gold with no doors then all miners win."

This makes way more sense to me personally. The entire idea of the expansion is to create more dynamic tensions between players. Not just plainly saboteurs vs miners, but some competition within the teams as well. The fewer players winning the game, the more gold they get. This creates a great tension for all teams between working towards their goals (for which it's best to be with a large group) and getting rid of teammates (jail, forced roleswitch or placing a colored door) just before the game ends so your individual reward is bigger. The green and blue doors are a great example. If no doors are placed, all miners will work toward the gold. But as soon as a green door appears, the blue miners will try to stall the game until they have an alternative route to reach the gold. Confessing your colors too early may therefore hinder your ability to reach the gold altogether, as may actually be your plan while playing an unproductive role (sab/geologist/profitor), but can be counterproductive as a miner. As a miner, ideally you would wait until the very last card to place a (correctly) colored door to ensure victory for your smaller team.

With the rules as they are enforced here, it feels way more "random" as you need to be lucky enough to be on the right colored team to win as a miner. If no colored doors are placed at all, the gold should just be split among all (leaving very little left per player). Thus giving an incentive to actively "ditch" some teammates in order to earn more. Basically, the way the game is now played on BGA, the doors have very little effect and are pretty clearly not operating the way they were intended. It's a shame, because I really love the expansion, but now it feels a bit bleak.

2021년 Jul 29일 02:31 • ciphernaut1 • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

I played Saboteur 2 for the fist time today on BGA, and ran into this "bug," when in a 2 player game a green miner completed the path to the gold and blue didn't get any winnings, even though there were no doors.

I've played this game many dozens of times offline, and for our group the rules were clear: if there is no door blocking the way, then the winnings are shared. Since the winnings decrease with more winners, there is a motivation to play doors to prevent opponents from sharing your spoils.

So now I just spend a couple hours researching this issue, because it seems there is some variation to this rule in different editions/printings/languages. So, was it a rules interpretation error, or was the rule changed from one edition to another? I see no evidence of any rule changes, so I'm leaning more towards it was an interpretation error.

The rules listed here are clear: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the dwarves from the team of the same color win."

www.ultraboardgames.com/saboteur/saboteur2-game-rules.php

The English rules here also says the same: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the miners that match the color of the door win."

www.amigo-spiele.de/spiel/saboteur-2#1441873892000-b4b4e996-942a

Frederic Moyersoen, the designer of the game states this on BoardGameGeek:
"In the case that you connect the gold via 2 valid paths with different doors, the effect of the doors is neglected. All miners (blue and green) share the gold."

boardgamegeek.com/thread/927474/article/17861920#17861920

I've seen the text of the alternative versions of the rules, and even spots where Frederic seems to contradict himself. Perhaps ultimately it's a house-ruling. But what should the rule be for BGA?

It's always worked well in my gaming group with the rule of miners sharing the gold unless blocked by a door. And, I do believe that it was clearly written that way in the first printing (which I own) and many following editions. How and why that changed, whether it was simply a translation error or misunderstanding is unknown.

My vote is for the original rule, as it makes the most sense to me. After all, finding the gold isn't like finding an item on the ground, it's finding an ore vein that needs to be mined over time... so a miner or team can't simply run off with it. If they don't have a locked door to keep the other miners away, then the other miners will be mining that vein with them....

2021년 Nov 5일 03:01 • Sammy McSam • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

As previous comments have stated this is NOT a bug. This is user error in the interpretation of the rules.
See also
May 7th 2020 18:26 • GMaks
May 16th 2020 5:30 • Geddy19

The rules are clear that blue and green diggers are two teams in competition with each other to find gold and both teams win only when gold is found by a non-Gold-Digger (and there is at least one path without a door):

The New Dwarf Cards And Their Victory Conditions
Blue and Green Gold-Diggers (4 each)
Both teams try to tunnel their way towards the treasure, but they are in competition.
A team wins if:
● a dwarf from that team creates the connection to the treasure and the way there
isn‘t blocked by a door of the other color, or;
● a dwarf from the other team creates the connection to the treasure, but the way
there for his or her own team is blocked by a door of the wrong color
Both teams win (along with all other “non-Saboteurs”) if The Boss, The Geologist
or The Profiteer creates the connection to the gold and the way there isn‘t blocked
by a door of the other color.

2021년 Dec 3일 00:41 • NaoV • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Bonjour,

le bug est apparu sur la partie 220896099 lors de la première manche.
Une seule fois dans la soirée qd les bleu ont gagné (sans porte bleu).

2021년 Dec 3일 10:55 • Thorin01 • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Bonjour,
Bug sur les 3 manches ce jour.
Première et seconde manche un nain vert a trouvé le trésor, sans passer par une porte verte et pourtant seul l’équipe des nains verts ont été désignés vainqueurs.
La 3 ème manche c’est un nain bleu qui a trouvé le trésor et aucun partage avec les nains verts, pourtant pas de porte bleu

2022년 Jan 17일 10:02 • Julia-Maks • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

В игре #233202993 после открытия золота зеленой командой, гном синей команды не получил победного золота (дверей в туннеле не было)

2022년 Jan 28일 20:53 • NaoV • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Bonjour,
Bug lors de la première manche, un joueur bleu trouve le trésor.
Aucune porte bleu posé mais les joueurs verts ne gagnent pas, seul les bleu remportent la victoire.

Numéro de la table : 236991262

2023년 Feb 7일 06:00 • CbEMi • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

imgur.com/J6q632U

багу уже год!!! (

2023년 Mar 13일 18:01 • Kivinn • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

There was 2 ways fot going to the gold durant the second party : one way with a green door and another way with no door, and finaly at the end only green diggers win gold.

2024년 Jan 14일 20:25 • anjanida • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Same bug here, just the other way around: green won without doors and blue got nothing. Here is our game: In the very end of the third round boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=462107015

2024년 Jul 28일 16:43 • Zonka_z • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

table 543004072
sreenshots imgur.com/a/mCYzgRh
vladispodik2 laid the crossroad and thus opened the way for the blue team before the last card played, but in the end of the game, blue team didn`t get gold

2024년 Nov 18일 14:09 • ugeltroglodita • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Same bug here, on game Saboteur #590533236, 2nd round.
Blue dwarf arrived at gold, there wasn't doors in the path, and green dwarfs didn't get any gold.

2025년 Jan 9일 14:28 • SumyJ • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

Happened 100%
Critically affecting game

2025년 May 6일 13:39 • Infernus228 • 개발자가 아직 버그를 재현하지 않았습니다:

#668553958 the first round

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#14521: "Saboteur 2: When the blue team won, the green team did not get the gold (there were no blue doors). "

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